So a Christian blogger that I respect recently posted about how awful Christians such as myself are for our disdain for the Stepford Duggar family. But I just can’t help myself. Here are just a few of the reasons that they freak me out:
1) they dress like Mennonites or Orthodox Jews. Which if they were either, I would respect that, but THEY’RE NOT. They’re just “some kind” of weird Christian (see #2)
2) They have church in their living room, apparently with other parents of mega-hordes. Even the McCaugheys, my second-favorite train wreck, go to an actual church. I know that “house churches” are trendy, but there’s no accountability built in there. Do we forget that another mother of more kids than she could handle*** went to this kind of “living room church”?
3) THERE ARE A GAZILLION ORPHANS IN THE WORLD! And plenty of “waiting children” in the US (even in Arkansas, the Duggar’s home state.) The fact that they want to keep procreating rather than giving a home to these “waiting children” leads me to conclude that they are only interested in bringing more white children into the world. I’m sorry, but this just seems downright Aryan to me.
4) I am convinced that they gave their children alliterative names purely to drive me insane. As if this isn’t a bad enough thing for someone with three or four or five kids to do?!
5) If you look at the Duggar’s photo album, you will see the women and girls doing most of the housework, while the men and boys are playing chess, spelunking, and whatever else. Some Christians are okay with this. I am not. PS–that doesn’t mean that you get to decide that I am not a Christian!
6) Even though a proper Republican Christian radio station referred to one Duggar-critical blogger as a member of the “scum of the earth” club, it’s still the case that those who would villify me for this rant will tell me how wrong it is to be so mean to such fine, upstanding, completely-obedient-to-God folks such as these, even if it’s perfectly okay for THEM to refer to non-believers as “the scum of the earth”.
7) Here you go. I’ll let them speak for themselves. ‘Nuff said!
***I do not in any way mean to mock Andrea Yates or what she went through. As someone who has struggled with mental illness myself, I don’t in any way wish to demonize the woman. But the fact that she was in this restrictive environment, attending a “house church” with a similar lack of accountability and the resulting fall from orthodoxy, did not help her condition at all.
Thanks for your thoughts on the Duggars. I differ with you, but I also differ with the perspective of many of those at Slice.
Here’s my opinion: I have the greatest respect for the Duggar family, and it appears that the kids are well-taken-care-of and seem well adjusted. I admire the parents for their faith and courage, and their organization!! More power to them, as the saying goes! If I thought that they were having children at the taxpayer’s expense, I would have a different opinion; but my understanding is that he is able to support the family without accepting public welfare, and so I can find no “public policy” reason to object.
On the other hand, I have to say that there’s something that leaves me a little uneasy…something “eerie” that I can’t quite put into words. When I discovered (on their website?…I can’t remember) that they were close adherents to Bill Gothard’s teachings, that made the “eerie” feeling even stronger. For those of you who don’t know, Gothard has some very strongly legalistic teachings, and some have exposed him for these (see http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Christian/dp/0974252808/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-1996905-9148130?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187719426&sr=8-3
for example). That’s not to disparage all Gothard followers, because I have known many who didn’t bother me at all, but there is a certain rigidity among many Gothard-ites that is troubling to me.
Rigidity and legalism…which leads to my next comment: I get the impression from some of the Duggar fans that “if we were all TRUE Christians and had ANY faith at all, we’d do just like the Duggars”. I get the impression from them that they think those who use birth control are sinning and acting out of selfish, materialistic, hedonistic motivations. With this sentiment I must strongly disagree. It seems to me that the Bible does tell us that different Christians have different gifts, different abilities and different talents; some have seemingly unlimited patience, others struggle with it. Some are good with money, others are not. Some are extremely organized, others are, well, slobs. Some can handle stressful situations very well, others get frantic very quickly. Some are good at multitasking, others aren’t. Some are well-rounded, and seem to be good at everything - they’re good with computers, they’re handy around the house, they can make their own clothes, they can…can (fruit, that is!); others are lucky to get to work on time every day, and can barely take care of themselves, let alone 17 kids.
The Duggars seem to have many of the qualities (and circumstances) it takes to have the number of kids they have. But we can’t expect others to feel that they must do the same thing or ELSE they’re NOT VERY FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS (Sniff!) and assume that to stop at one kid or two kids, etc. (dare I say even…decide NOT to have kids at all??) means that your decision is based on some Satanic motivation.
Despite all the “full quiver” talk, there is no place in the Bible that dictates how many children a couple should have. Yes, children are a blessing, but that’s not the same as to say that you MUST never consider birth control. The Bible also says when a man has found a good wife, he has found a good thing. That is not the same as to say that a man MUST marry, or else he is a backsliding rebel.
So since the matter isn’t clearly spelled out in Scripture, we should be very careful about condemning those who differ with the Duggar’s lifestyle and choices, just as much as we should be careful about scoffing at the Duggars and those families of a similar mindset. We should admire and commend the Duggars, but be careful at the same time to practice the principles of Romans 14 and Christian liberty toward those who don’t make the same choices, since the Bible does dictate one way or the other.
Whoops…that last sentence of my last post should read “…since the Bible does NOT dictate one way or the other”.
If you don’t mind me adding a few points, I’d like to say that I used to go to a Reformed Baptist church that had many large families (8 or 9 kids). Based on some of your comments in Slice’s forum, I thought you might be pleased to know that one of these (white) families had many of their own children, but had also adopted 2 African American kids into their family too; they also acted as foster parents to other kids.
I really admired the family; actually I felt unworthy when I compared myself to them. But they never, ever made me feel as though I was a 2d class Christian just because my wife and I didn’t have children. I never felt as though they (or the other large families) looked down on others who had fewer (or no) kids.
I also never had the eerie feeling with those families that I get from the Duggars. Maybe it’s just that whole Gothard thing that makes the difference. I believe that the Gothard mindset is, again, entirely too (even…dangerously?) rigid, and goes far beyond what Scripture actually states.
For example, the gender roles. You have caught on to the rigidity that is being established in that home. Yes, the Bible says that wives are to be “keepers at home”, but is that to say that it’s a sin for a wife to work outside the home, when the Bible also contains Proverbs 31? Consider this scenario: let’s say one of the little Duggar girls hates sewing, hates cleaning the house, hates doing laundry, and isn’t entirely fond of cooking either….but one day she learns about astronomy in homeschool, and falls in love with the whole field of study, dreaming one day of being an astronaut, or going to university to be an astronomer, maybe working at an observatory. Do you think this dream would be encouraged or discouraged by the parents? My hunch is that it would be discouraged since it doesn’t fit in the Gothard mold, but (as Bill O’Reilly says) I could be wrong.
After all, this would mean years of schooling, a potential career (gasp!) at (say) NASA, and perhaps the postponement of marriage and children. Would this make her worldly? Selfish? A disobedient Christian? I don’ think so…but this whole scenario just would not fit inside the Gothard “box”. But perhaps as a Christian astronaut or astronomer, she would be as inspiring and influential, even as God-glorifying as her mother, just in a different way.
Your thoughts?
In Christ, Alan
I am horrified. Wait till one of their kids rebels and becomes a stripper and then gets into the porn industry. Just watch. The sh-t will hit the fan. Poor children. The way this family lives is unnatural. I checked out the modest swimwear link. Frightening…as if the human body was bad and dirty and sex was evil and wrong. I’ll bet these parents would turn their backs on their kids if they disagreed with the lifestyle and wanted to marry someone of another faith, have pre-marital sex etc. That tends to be the nature of a cult.
it is kinda funny that some one would condemn people for having their own children, and almost blame them for not adopting the orphans in their state. If this person is that concerned about the orphans then they should adopt. Do not condemn someone for something that you yourself are not prepared to do.
(posted and e-mailed)
You are correct in saying that I am not prepared to do something (right now) about the “waiting children” in my own state . . . but it’s something that is certainly on my radar for the future, however distant.
however, I also have not chosen to give birth to 17 children in an era where the earth is horrifically overpopulated and using up resources at such a fast rate that we may not be able to sustain life on this planet for very much longer . . .
and I realize that this may seem like semantics, but I don’t see myself as “condemning” this family . . . I don’t even know them personally, right? so I know it seems strange to so many that I would “pick on them” like this . . . but again, it’s what they REPRESENT that I have a problem with.
This was an obscure post that I wrote while feeling particularly “inspired” one day, and yet it continues to get more traffic than anything else I write about. I wish that my other posts (well, not the “fat girl” ones, but everything else!) would get this kind of attention!
I agree with the comment about a girl in this type of family being encouraged to use her gifts, if they don’t relate to homemaking or parenting. Also, I question how much indivduality is allowed at all in a family this large. For example, what are the chances that all of the children showing playing the violin naturally gravitated toward that instrument? It seems that the parents are more interested in the image that they are presenting to the world with their family than in the children as individual people.
The parents seem like they have incredible patience and are extremely loving. However, I think that by having this many children the parents are taking their kids childhood away from them. If you watch the shows, you will see that the mother doesn’t really do much of anything but get pregnant. The kids do everything else. They do all the cooking, cleaning and washing. These kids are maids, not children!!
The parents do seem loving and patient, I agree. I would have to say though that I have never seen anything more morally wrong. Before they built their new house, Michelle used to stay up until 2:00 in the morning doing laundry. That in and of itself is ridiculous. The children being home skilled and having little to no contact with anybody in the outside world would be completely traumatized if something, God forbid, were to happen to their parents
To the person (laterain) worried about sustaining life in this “horrifically over-populated” world… I would like to say a couple things. First, pro-creating in and of itself is single most obvious way to “sustain life.” also, you need to realize that just as you have your opinions, beliefs, and potential child-rearing methods, this family has theirs too. They are Christians, as well as quite conservative, and simply believe that birth control is wrong. This is America so they are entitled to believe and behave in that way if they choose! Also the way they raise their family has OBVIOUS motivations, modesty=respect for one’s body, chores=preparation for your own family, and as for the sheltering, it is easy to see why God-fearing people would want to protect their kids from what the media has to offer!!! and one more thing. if this family were to exist in a different time or in a more conservative environment, i’m sure that their methods would not be questioned so much. but the fact is, after the drugs, sex, rock and roll era has pervaded society, families trying to adhere to more conservative lifestyles are considered “odd” or even bad.
BOTTOM LINE: the duggars are not abusive or neglectful. they just have a lot of kids. go pick on someone else
If you really follow the bible about this whole “quiver” movement and want to follow it to a tee, then you should REALLY only have 7 children because a quiver only holds 7 arrows! My husband a former pastor educated me on that. And also for the record, if you do a little research on Mrs. Duggar she used to use birth control! SHOCK!!!
These people have WAY too many kids. She has been pregnant for HALF of her life!! Why would someone want to do that. I realize that the kids are great but 18 kids is a lot plus they have no individuality.
Who cares how many children they have? They seem to have enough money and certainly enough love to go around. Their children are healthy, loved, god-fearing, and seem happy. They are a content family and work like a well oiled machine. I think they are very sweet and what’s your point in criticizing them and putting them down?? Leave them alone for Christ’s sake.
The Duggars are sick people very sick and it’s things like this that make the world dislike America so much and give good Americans a very bad name. NO EXCUSE THEY ARE SICK!
I must admit it concerns me. I, too, wonder about the older children. I remember seeing the family on TV once and they interviewed the oldest son. He said he only wanted to have “two” children - that spoke something to me. Seems to me the Mom and Pop are the ones who are the happiest about these new babies. And, I’m not so sure they care what the kids think - they probably assume they will automatically embrace it. I, too, wonder about one “snapping” - wouldn’t be the first time. And when you mention Andrea Yates - I think her husband should be in prison right along with her. He killed those children just as surely as she did, although he never touched them. It was all about him -and now, he has it ALL to himself. Pitiful - that’s the only word for it. May God cover these children with His hand and keep them safe.
I think a lot of the arguements ‘for’ these people are way off-target. Who cares if the bible says you should breed like rats, who cares if they take care of them properly, who cares if they have the right to be completely irresponsible. All of these religions who’s tenets are to procreate as much as possible in order to spread your faith are ridiculous and dangerous. You as a responsible adult have to take into account the results of your actions. Duh. Fercundity is not something to be taken lightly and should not be done just because it makes you happy or feel ‘closer to the lord’ or whatever. I seriously believe that we are going to be eventually forced into mandated population control because of these kind of people. What if everyone who could breed like that did, we would all succumb within a few generations. What gives these people the right to do this? Nothing. I don’t think that’s how your god wants you to behave. Grow up.
Sure they aren’t living on “government” handouts. But they are certainly making money OFF having so many kids. Their house was built for them, they don’t do TV spots for free either.
What makes ME uneasy is they have more kids as a cash crop “oh look, oldest is ready for college, let’s pop another one out to finance it!” sort of mentality. They aren’t DOING anything to earn the money other than popping out and raising kids. Now I’m sure it’s more than a full time job, I’d never suggest that its easy, but they got lucky and are able to afford more kids because they had so many to begin with.
Dear one,
If you are a true Christian, then you will not judge others. The Lord says in His Word that we should pluck the plank from our own eye before we try to remove the splinter from our brother’s. The Duggars are not a perfect family, and have never claimed to be. They are simply trying to follow the Bible at the Holy Spirit’s leading, and not trying to push their belief’s off on anyone else. In Lifeway magazine’s ParentLife this month, there is an article about them/by them. Michelle Duggar states in this article:
” Frankly I do not answer my critics unless I sense that behind their questions is a sincere desire to ask of the hope that is in me. I am ont going to push my personal convictions on anybody else. I believe that is where our walk with Christ is personal. Who can argue with someone’s personal relationship with God? I am not expecting anyone else to walk this walk. This is a calling that I know God has placed on my heart. It is about Him, my walk with Him, and my testimony of who He is in my life.
I feel a great kinship with the great missionary to the orphans, George Mueller. I love his testimony because people thought he was crazy, too. They said ” You can’t take care of that many kids! What are you thinking?” I look at his life, and I feel the same way. You do not have to tell me that I am totally inadequate. I know I am!! But by God’s grace, I am able. In my weakness, God makes me strong.”
Michelle Duggar
ParentLIfe Magazine
May 2008
Please search Scripture, and your heart, and be very sure that the things you say about others are Godly. This post, sadly, is not.
Praying for you
A Concerned Christian
I am torn. I completely agree w.many of your thoughts. I believe that their sexist household is frightening. I wonder how much one human body can take. Reallly, does her OB think the average woman can birth 18 children?
However, I respect that there is something frighteningly peaceful about them. They know they are mocked by today’s society, somewhat, and they don’t care. They truly believe in the life they’ve chosen, and they live it well.
So, I suppose it’s a to-each-their-own, type thought.
I have to confesws, I can’t wait to see their show on DiscoveryHealth, because it looks like a series, long-term, not just one show.
I can’t find previews online, but I did see these:
Wonder how Michelle Duggar feels about Quads w.Two Moms! LOL}!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhvPt2BPUos
And this looks like one of those dateline things: Women who didn’t know they were pregnant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAbF5DzVSPo&feature=related
Wow. I would hate to be you on judgement day. Just because they do not fit into the same Christian mold you came from (which i am not sure how Christian it was considering your worldly nasty views of other christians) dosen’t mean they are weird/wrong or anything else. Maybe if you applied scripture to your own life as they have you wouldn’t be so nasty to others.
barbara….also quiverful momma
First off, to the person who made the comment about adoptions and “don’t do something you’re not prepared to do first.” Here’s the thing, not everyone can afford to adopt children. However, A family who can afford to have 18 children, could certainly have afforded to adopt children instead.
Secondly, what bothers me most about the Duggar family after watching their show previously, is the lack of attention each child gets from the parents. They seem like the “perfect” family, except children take care of children. The parents do very little actual parenting. It’s more like a summer camp than a family in my opinion.
The clear sexism also bothers me. There are so many opportunities for women these days, and so many activities previously thought to be “only for men” that should be for women too. A woman who cannot see herself as anything but a wife and a baby making machine is not a woman I could get along with. Not that there’s anything wrong with being a wife and mother, but what about doing something for yourself? From what I could see, they aren’t providing their children, especially the girls, with the opportunities to realize they can do both; they can be wives and mothers, AND they can go to college, climb a mountain, see the world, whatever they wish to do.
Lastly, though I do not wish harm on the mother or family, I have to wonder, how much more can her body take? People had so many children in the past because not all of them lived. Having that many children was hard on the body, and still is. Mrs. Duggar isn’t a young woman anymore, eventually she’ll need to learn to quit, or she’ll, or a baby, will face the medical consequences of her and her husband’s refusal to practice some kind of birth control.
Wow, what a “christian” thing of you to do. Judging a family just because you seem to think that it’s all about you? Even going so far as to make some asinine statement about their naming their children “just to drive you insane”. I hate to burst that bubble you live in, sweetheart, but you aren’t the only one living in this world, and the Duggars don’t have to live to suit you and your vanity. Apparently, you have nothing better to do than put other people down, so you must be a pretty miserable individual. A miserable individual with too much free time on your hands. Perhaps a hobby, or a JOB would be best suited for you? Rather than sitting on the internet blathering on about you, you, you and why these people make you insane. Perhaps a mental wellness check might be in your near future? Look into it…….
(posted and emailed)
Laci, thanks for your comments. Some responses:
1) This entry was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. My one “real” gripe with families like the Duggars is the fact that the underlying motivation for having so many children is a thinly-veiled white supremacy and a desire to repopulate the earth with the “right” (read: white) kind of children. http://littlemisstottenville.com/2008/05/10/quiverfull-or-why-i-wont-apologize-for-picking-on-that-nice-family-that-never-hurt-anyone-and-others-like-them/
2) I have many hobbies. Blogging is one of them, as I have always been a writer.
3) I definitely also have a job. (40 hours per week; vacation day today!)
4) As I mentioned in this post, I *am* living with mental illness (double depression, anxiety, ADHD, PTSD) and I appreciate your concern for my mental health, but I am doing well and doing what I need to to keep myself well. I also don’t think this has anything to do with my feelings about this family. (I meant to use the word “insane” in this case in a colloquial/non-clinical way.)
5) I don’t consider myself to be a miserable person at all. I have a rich life, am very active in my church and community, and “miserable” is not a word that most people who know me would use when describing me.
As I have tried to explain, and I can understand why some people don’t accept this explanation, I have nothing against the Duggars as people or as fellow Jesus followers (though I might disagree with some of their opinions on what makes someone a “proper” Jesus follower). I DO have a problem with the philosophy they embrace, the misogynistic nature of their family make-up, with a twelve-year-old girl doing all the laundry for twenty people every day, etc. Perhaps they are truly very nice people. However, they have put themselves out in the public spotlight, and because of this, they are going to be under scrutiny. Such is the nature of celebrity in our society.
This post continues to be the highest-ranking post I’ve ever written. This is not something I’m particularly happy about; I would greatly prefer that people would read the things I write about racism in our country, or about size acceptance, or mental health parity. But apparently I am not the only “miserable” person who continues to have a sick fascination with this particular train wreck.
Thank you, Laci, for your kind and loving Christian comments towards me. I always welcome the dialogue and I post all comments, even those from my detractors.
Thanks for reading.
Lorraine
Laci’s email bounced back to me as invalid. Hopefully she will see this here, so that she knows how very much I appreciated her kind words of concern.